[ rss / options / help ]
post ]
[ b / iq / g / zoo ] [ e / news / lab ] [ v / nom / pol / eco / emo / 101 / shed ]
[ art / A / beat / boo / com / fat / job / lit / map / mph / poof / £$€¥ / spo / uhu / uni / x / y ] [ * | sfw | o ]
logo
politics

Return ]

Posting mode: Reply
Reply ]
Subject   (reply to 89959)
Message
File  []
close
https___d6c748xw2pzm8.cloudfront.net_prod_6826ca40.png
899598995989959
>> No. 89959 Anonymous
12th June 2020
Friday 12:21 pm
89959 spacer
What does this mean?
Expand all images.
>> No. 89960 Anonymous
12th June 2020
Friday 1:10 pm
89960 spacer
It terms of what?
>> No. 89961 Anonymous
12th June 2020
Friday 1:12 pm
89961 spacer
I'm no expert, but it looks to me as if we shut all the shops, bars, restaurants, hotels, offices, warehouses and factories across the entire country all at once.
>> No. 89962 Anonymous
12th June 2020
Friday 1:31 pm
89962 spacer
>>89961
You sound like an expert.
>> No. 89963 Anonymous
12th June 2020
Friday 3:59 pm
89963 spacer

29534078-8414549-image-a-1_1591973719386.jpg
899638996389963

>> No. 89964 Anonymous
12th June 2020
Friday 3:59 pm
89964 spacer

29529370-8414549-image-a-2_1591966178581.jpg
899648996489964

>> No. 89965 Anonymous
12th June 2020
Friday 3:59 pm
89965 spacer

29529372-8414549-image-a-6_1591966298895.jpg
899658996589965

>> No. 89966 Anonymous
12th June 2020
Friday 4:00 pm
89966 spacer

29529366-8414549-image-a-4_1591966292519.jpg
899668996689966

>> No. 89967 Anonymous
12th June 2020
Friday 4:00 pm
89967 spacer

29529368-8414549-image-a-3_1591966290064.jpg
899678996789967

>> No. 89968 Anonymous
12th June 2020
Friday 4:00 pm
89968 spacer

29529362-8414549-image-a-5_1591966296356.jpg
899688996889968

>> No. 89969 Anonymous
12th June 2020
Friday 5:12 pm
89969 spacer
It means buckle your seatbelt Dorothy because Kansas is going bye-bye.
>> No. 89970 Anonymous
12th June 2020
Friday 5:19 pm
89970 spacer
>>89959
It means that coronavirus has fucked our economy.
>> No. 89971 Anonymous
12th June 2020
Friday 5:25 pm
89971 spacer
>>89970
If the FTSE has closed up today does that mean the news is actually better than feared?
>> No. 89972 Anonymous
12th June 2020
Friday 5:47 pm
89972 spacer
>>89971
No, it means rich people are trying to profit off the failure of others.
>> No. 89973 Anonymous
12th June 2020
Friday 5:52 pm
89973 spacer
>>89972
How so?
>> No. 89974 Anonymous
12th June 2020
Friday 6:01 pm
89974 spacer
>>89971

The FTSE 100 is up by 28 points on today's trading, but it's down nearly 400 points on the week and 1350 points since the beginning of the outbreak. Today's trading doesn't tell us much of anything - there's no big movement either way, so the market opinion hasn't changed.
>> No. 89975 Anonymous
12th June 2020
Friday 6:07 pm
89975 spacer
>>89973
Because share prices are for a large part built on perceptions of the value of the company, not the actual capacity of a company to earn revenue.
After a large stock market crash, prices inevitably bounce back pretty rapidly, because at the slightest hint that the market has reached it's bottom and the market because very much driven by the desire of people and corporations to get rid of cash and back into assets that show promise of recovery.

Essentially in the stock market you make money by pre-empting changes. In a crisis shares may fall before much physical damage is realised and being to recover while the crisis is still ongoing.
>> No. 89976 Anonymous
12th June 2020
Friday 6:10 pm
89976 spacer
>>89975
This post doesn't make any sense because I've had a long busy week and I should be in bed by now.
>> No. 89977 Anonymous
12th June 2020
Friday 6:24 pm
89977 spacer
>>89975>>89976
No you're entirely right - all markets are based on sentiment, not fundamental values. It doesn't actually matter how much money you make/not make, what is more important is what people think your future value is - that is sentiment.

See also: Tesla vs Ford vs Nikola for an example.
>> No. 89978 Anonymous
12th June 2020
Friday 6:34 pm
89978 spacer
>>89975
>After a large stock market crash, prices inevitably bounce back pretty rapidly

It still makes me laugh how all the wizened heads on here said not to buy into the FTSE when it fell below 5,000 in March.
>> No. 89979 Anonymous
12th June 2020
Friday 6:53 pm
89979 spacer
>>89978
Not all of us lad. I work in an investment bank. Everyone here should sell everything they own and BUY the fuck out of the market. Of all the things going on, this is your one-in-a-lifetime opportunity to buy into the market at record lows.

Setup a regular savings plan into an ISA or a SIPP. Right now is literally the best time.
>> No. 89980 Anonymous
12th June 2020
Friday 7:08 pm
89980 spacer
>>89979

I have a help-to-buy ISA, how will this affect me?

I have a couple of grand knocking about but I'm scared to put it in anything because I'm a povvo and that money is about two years worth of sweat and tears.
>> No. 89981 Anonymous
12th June 2020
Friday 7:09 pm
89981 spacer
>>89979
An investment banker would say that though!

You've reminded me that I really need to put my Christmas savings onto the market. I'd put in even more on the roulette wheel but anything beyond that is contingency savings I might need immediate access to.
>> No. 89982 Anonymous
12th June 2020
Friday 7:13 pm
89982 spacer
>>89980
Buy into investment funds not individual stocks - Legal & General are a good start. If you like technology or geekery (you're here after all) they have a technology fund which invests into people like Facebook, Amazon, Netflix, Google etc - you can get the benefit of their growth, without the risk of being individually exposed to one company.
>> No. 89983 Anonymous
12th June 2020
Friday 7:15 pm
89983 spacer
>>89981
Of course I would - I accept my bias. But a small number of people are about to get very rich by investing in the market now. If you have some cash you can afford to put away for a while, now is the time to do it.
>> No. 89984 Anonymous
12th June 2020
Friday 9:22 pm
89984 spacer
>>89980
> I have a help-to-buy ISA, how will this affect me?

As far as I am aware all HTB ISA's are cash only, so this does not affect you at all.

> I have a couple of grand knocking about but I'm scared to put it in anything because I'm a povvo and that money is about two years worth of sweat and tears.

A couple of grand is an emergency fund, not something that sensible people put into the stock market.

If you are putting money into stocks you should be looking at a period of 10 years before you need the money. It could be 3 years before the market gets back to pre-COVID levels.

The most sensible thing to do is increase your pension contributions, since then you automatically buy into the market every month. Boring but relatively safe, and reduces the chances of Mr Investment Banker trading against your dumb retail investor brain. I have mine at 25% employee + 5% employer contributions.
>> No. 89985 Anonymous
18th June 2020
Thursday 1:03 pm
89985 spacer
The Bank of England will pump an extra £100bn into the UK economy to help fight the "unprecedented" coronavirus-induced downturn.

Bank policymakers voted 8-1 to increase the size of its bond-buying programme. However, they said there was growing evidence that the hit to the economy would be "less severe" than initially feared.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53093127
>> No. 89986 Anonymous
18th June 2020
Thursday 2:56 pm
89986 spacer
>>89985

Ahhhh yes please just keep pumping the money fuck savers.
>> No. 89987 Anonymous
18th June 2020
Thursday 3:55 pm
89987 spacer
>>89986
Invest, mate. Fuck saving.
>> No. 89988 Anonymous
18th June 2020
Thursday 4:04 pm
89988 spacer
>>89987
I am but it doesn't mean I agree with it.
>> No. 89989 Anonymous
21st June 2020
Sunday 2:12 pm
89989 spacer
>>89988
there is no good reason you should be paid large sums of money to have your money sitting doing nothing.
>> No. 89990 Anonymous
21st June 2020
Sunday 2:31 pm
89990 spacer
>>89989
It's not 'doing nothing', savings are technically what your bank loans out to other people. Money is only doing nothing if it's in a pillowcase underneath some floorboards or one of the millions of pennies lost in a drain.
>> No. 89991 Anonymous
21st June 2020
Sunday 2:46 pm
89991 spacer
>>89989
Yes there is - you're giving it to someone else temporarily, and they're paying you for the risk/privilege of having it on their balance sheet.
>> No. 89992 Anonymous
21st June 2020
Sunday 4:47 pm
89992 spacer
>>89990
>>89991

"What do you do for a living?"

"I have money. People pay me for the use of my money."

I kean sure it makes sense but you can see why people dislike it. It's basically the same thing as being on the dole.
>> No. 89993 Anonymous
21st June 2020
Sunday 4:55 pm
89993 spacer
>>89992

You're arguing that banks shouldn't exist, or that they just shouldn't pay interest?

It sounds like you're only just learning that borrowing and lending is a large part of the economy.
>> No. 89994 Anonymous
21st June 2020
Sunday 5:08 pm
89994 spacer
>>89992
One of the most bizarre takes I've read on this website which is impressive considering 95% of it is unfiltered rubbish.
>> No. 89996 Anonymous
21st June 2020
Sunday 5:34 pm
89996 spacer
>>89994
It really is frightening how little people in this country know about the basics of personal finance and economics. None of my friends seem to understand things like budgeting, what a pension is or compounded growth; a few have ended up with five figure debt and the most mind-boggling thing one of them has said was when my friend told me that she wouldn't make overpayments on her mortgage because the bank would get to keep half of it.
>> No. 89997 Anonymous
21st June 2020
Sunday 6:19 pm
89997 spacer
>>89996 compounded growth
Financial people seem to regard this as some mystical thing that mere mortals can't understand, while completely failing to acknowledge the compounded fucking inflation negating it. Add to that their insatiable desire for fees, and afaics, a pound saved is damn close to a pounds worth available in the future.
Worth doing, but the 'invest early in your pension, even if you're skint as fuck, you'll be minted/grateful/less destitute when you retire' seems to be rather more for the benefit of the pension industry than the customer.
Anyone receiving pension statements from a scheme they paid into 20 years ago will surely know this feeling - 'I could really have used that cash back then, and I could casually dump that amount into a scheme now, it just doesn't seem worth it'
Or is it just me?
>> No. 89998 Anonymous
21st June 2020
Sunday 6:29 pm
89998 spacer
>>89993>>89996>>89994

No, you completely misunderstand. It's not that I don't know what's going on, it's that I can see why people think it's wrong. It is literally free money because you already had money to begin with; and in a society where we are constantly hammered with messaging about the value of hard work, people don't like seeing other people get free money.

Sorry if I've offended the investment banker demographic of dot gee ess but most normal people don't understand it and that's just plain how they see it. You can argue why they're wrong till the cows come home but you can't change the fact it really is money for nothing.

It's a different debate if you want to talk about how people doing this got the money in the first place, but do remember plenty of people inherit sums that they can turn into a perfectly liveable income thanks to this particular quirk of the economy.
>> No. 90000 Anonymous
21st June 2020
Sunday 6:39 pm
90000 spacer
>>89998

>It's a different debate if you want to talk about how people doing this got the money in the first place, but do remember plenty of people inherit sums that they can turn into a perfectly liveable income thanks to this particular quirk of the economy.

Surely your point only works when aimed at those who inherited their money - and the majority of people don't. An even slimmer amount of people who do inherit money actually manage to dodge the taxes involved with it.
>> No. 90001 Anonymous
21st June 2020
Sunday 7:10 pm
90001 spacer

jpcompound.gif
900019000190001
>>89997
It really does work, even taking into account inflation and charges, especially when you throw in free money in the form of employer contributions.

The trouble is you have one bad year and people will start stating that they don't believe in pensions anymore, even though the reality is that when the markets are down they're buying low.
>> No. 90002 Anonymous
21st June 2020
Sunday 7:44 pm
90002 spacer
>>90000

There's a respectable amount of people who will get their start in it from selling the mum and dad's house after they pop their cloggs, or from a divorce settlement, that sort of thing.

Even if it's money you worked hard to get, it's one of many things that gives the accumulation of wealth a somewhat unfair logarithmic curve. Once you've got a bit, it's an order of magnitude easier to make more, than when you've got to make every penny count.

Anyway I'll not divert this into another re-run of Cunt Off 24-B: Critique of Capitalism.
>> No. 90003 Anonymous
21st June 2020
Sunday 7:46 pm
90003 spacer
>>90002

I should probably add that my missus works for the Pru so I'm not a totally ignorant student lefty about the world of finances. She tells me there's a much higher proportion of kids getting handed fifty grand wedges when they turn 18 and so on than you'd imagine.

But yeah. Just thinking aloud really.
>> No. 90004 Anonymous
21st June 2020
Sunday 8:51 pm
90004 spacer
>>90001 Free money from employers is a clear win, but I'd like to see that graph with inflation and fees, as a more relevant scenario than those spookily smooth curves.
Bear in mind, I actually see my pension statements from jobs 25 years ago. They're what make me think that that money was effectively ill spent. Sure, it's possibly / probably at least partly my fault for just letting it fester with the pension company, but how much effort am I going to go to to add a few percent of a (now) paltry sum.
>> No. 90005 Anonymous
21st June 2020
Sunday 9:24 pm
90005 spacer

Power-of-Compound-Interest.jpg
900059000590005
>>90004
The thing with compounding is that it only really becomes noticeable when you've been doing it a fairly long time. It's the end of the chart where things shoot upwards.

A net return of roughly 5% would double every 14 years. If you started with £25,000 then after 28 years you'd have £100,000 but after 42 years that'd double again to £200,000. In the first 5 years it'd grow by almost £7,000 but in the 5 years between years 30 and 35 it'd grow by almost £30,000.

For most people the earlier they start the better.
>> No. 90006 Anonymous
21st June 2020
Sunday 9:42 pm
90006 spacer
>>90005 Yeah, but inflation _also_ kicks in at the same time. They're exactly the same mechanism.
Unless the rate for your (interest less fees) is greater than inflation, compounding does fuck all. If it's less, it works against you. A tiny difference, even compounded, isn't much. 1.01^20 is 1.22 . Whoop de fuck.
And, as far as I can see for retail pensions, interest rates for the last 20 years haven't beaten inflation.
Spending that money on qualifications, training, seed capital for a company, hookers and blow, might all be sensible alternatives.
>> No. 90007 Anonymous
21st June 2020
Sunday 10:47 pm
90007 spacer

linechart.png
900079000790007
>>90006
Inflation has only been higher than returns from the average ABI Global and ABI Mixed Investment 40-85% Shares pension fund net of fees in two of the past ten years, the twelve months to 19 June 2016 and 2012. Even with the dot-com bubble, the financial crisis and shitting the bed over coronavirus the returns of your average global equity pension fund are roughly double that of inflation; if I wanted to cherry pick then over the past 10 years the ABI Global sector average has returned 135.03% compared with 30.39% for inflation.

If you'd have a negative return after inflation and fees then there would be no point whatsoever in investing. Are you on about cash interest rates? You're not investing your pension in a cash fund are you? That would explain a lot.
>> No. 90008 Anonymous
22nd June 2020
Monday 9:16 am
90008 spacer
>>90007
Mmm, 50% better than inflation. That's not really that good, is it? And that graph is at somewhat of a high point, and I suspect about to go down a bit.
You're not making a compelling case for pensions having been a good investment (except for free company money, which is great but isn't always on offer).
The payments I made over the first 10 years of my working life will get me maybe three extra weeks in a private care home before running out of cash. For that benefit, I was a bit more strapped for those years, and had to make the expensive compromises that being broke entails.
I think that the 'save into a pension early, compound interest is magic' line favours the pensions industry far more than it favours the saver.
(If your pay never really goes up over time, it may look different? As it is, the amount I paid in back then, and the effort it took, just seems to have been wasted. More goes in each month, than that decade got me.)
Just working harder / getting more qualifications / being less broke all seem to be better investments in hindsight.
>> No. 90009 Anonymous
22nd June 2020
Monday 9:18 am
90009 spacer
>>90008 Edit: not more each month, I wish. Every few months.
>> No. 90010 Anonymous
22nd June 2020
Monday 12:55 pm
90010 spacer

linechart.png
900109001090010
>>90008
>except for free company money, which is great but isn't always on offer

Yes it is, thanks to auto-enrolment. Employers have to contribute to a pension.

That 20 year snapshot is only applicable if you invested all of your money June 2000 and took it all out in June 2020, which won't be the case for people regularly saving into a pension. As I've said, you can change the time frame to suit your argument (pic related) but with compounding the longer you've invested the greater its effects, which is why the curve steepens.

Compounding works best when you have a large sum for it to be applicable to. For the overwhelming majority of people this means starting early and building the sum up this way. It may be different for you, but "opt out of your pension scheme and pass out of free money so you can instead use this money to help you work harder and advance your career" is terrible advice for the majority.
>> No. 90011 Anonymous
22nd June 2020
Monday 2:12 pm
90011 spacer
>>90010 Compounding works best when you have a large sum for it to be applicable to.

Having lots of money is often a good starting point for having lots of money. Bootstrapping's a bitch.

(I'd forgotten about auto-enrolment, good point, and it may well make things less crappy for the young / low waged than it used to be.)

Return ] Entire Thread ] Last 50 posts ]
whiteline

Delete Post []
Password