[ rss / options / help ]
post ]
[ b / iq / g / zoo ] [ e / news / lab ] [ v / nom / pol / eco / emo / 101 / shed ]
[ art / A / beat / boo / com / fat / job / lit / map / mph / poof / £$€¥ / spo / uhu / uni / x / y ] [ * | sfw | o ]
logo
grow

Return ] Entire Thread ] Last 50 posts ]

Posting mode: Reply [Last 50 posts]
Reply ]
Subject   (reply to 1330)
Message
File  []
close
honey-food-storage.jpg
133013301330
>> No. 1330 Anonymous
7th September 2010
Tuesday 3:45 pm
1330 Food/water/perishables storage and emergency supplies
This thread shall be a place for me and others to add information on food, water and general perishables storage and building emergency supplies (as mentioned here >>1284 >>1285). This is the introductory post so I stop putting this off out of laziness and start writing (and so others can too) and cover what I think should be included and will try to add over time.

There are some quite good resources on the internet. Links (with a paragraph at least to explain what it is would be useful and expected) to good information can be collected here. I find that this area tends to be dominated by America, both in information and in vendors. It's often hard to find all you need in the UK - be it brands, materials, weights and measures or tools or suitable or available vendors. These kinds of hoops have wasted much of my time, but hopefully with the shared knowledge we can save each other some time and effort in reinventing or rediscovering what has been done before.

As suggested by someone previously, try to avoid going into /boo/ territory or clashing with any ideals or politics. Practical tips and answers to problems, please. Anything that fits within the subject is fine (so storage life or tips on Vitamin C or even saving old diesel in storage from going to waste is also okay). Techniques, URLs, experiences, even tips on buying. Much of the difficulties I've found is simply sourcing the material (this being much more difficult in the UK than the USA - with some areas in the UK being more troublesome than others) and getting it delivered for reasonable prices. As such I'd welcome price comparisons, shopping suggestions and heads up on any good bargains related to this area (even if they are only short term supermarket offers we can rush out and take advantage of).

This can be an adventure we take part in together, enjoying each other's mistakes and victories.
8 posts omitted. Last 50 posts shown. Expand all images.
>> No. 1339 Anonymous
8th September 2010
Wednesday 1:38 am
1339 Random tip of the day - waxed tins
One nice tip I heard that is related to stocking up on tins (SPAM, anyone?) and they had to learn to do this the hard way (well, almost as they managed to save the tins before failure thanks to them inspecting them before his).

To keep tins in good condition (especially if it's in a barn, shed, or similar non-central heated area that you may not be completely sure is dry or simply because the home is damp) you can dip them in hot wax to seal them and keep moisture and rust at bay. Use paraffin wax (buy cheaply it in bulk, not as candles. eBay has this listed by the Kg), none of your fancy soy or tallow candle wax, just in case any pests come around you don't want the food wrapped in edible wax.

If the item you are sealing is in a box (some cans also come this way), you can put tape around the edges of the box to seal it and then dip it.

Dip half of each of the tins into the wax, let it set with the newly waxed side up. When you get to the end of the tins then start at the beginning again but this time dip the bare end and leave the already set side down for it to cool.

When melting the wax, make sure you don't burn it. You only want to melt it. Heat gently. Use a pot solely for this purpose. Don't use your cooking pots or your good non-stick ones as the wax won't be coming off easily.

This should help protect the cans and get the most out of the shelf life (things like SPAM which can keep for a good while and is popular to stock up on may benefit the most from this preservation of the metal, while some tinned fruits will simply go bad with time inside the can before weathering or rust may be an issue or factor).

Never keep or open a bulging can. Food poisoning ahoy. Bag it and bin it. Get it well away from your food storage and preperation areas.
>> No. 1340 Anonymous
8th September 2010
Wednesday 1:45 am
1340 Bucket labels
When labelling the buckets, make sure that you label the container and not just the lid (you can do the lid too, but absolutely do the container). Lids can be knocked off or swapped around far too easily.

It is tempting to just write on the flat top surface, but don't get lazy at this stage. This is especially important with long term stuff which can be looked at as a fire extinguisher or insurance - you get it, put it somewhere and forget about it the rest of the time. If in four years (with rice it could easily be longer) you need to know what is what and the lids have been moved or knocked off you will be stuck. Far less likely that anyone will tip the contents of the bucket out or mix them up (but feel free to write on the bags, especially sensible if using many small bags inside one large bucket or container).

Write on the outside of the bucket, stack them with the writing facing outwards. Rotate so the oldest is at the front. Makes everything easier and saves opening them and rummaging.
>> No. 1341 Anonymous
8th September 2010
Wednesday 2:00 am
1341 spacer
Sorry for the odd typos. I really should write these out in a word document I can spell check and review easily before posting, rather than these little narrow reply windows.
>> No. 1342 Anonymous
8th September 2010
Wednesday 3:30 pm
1342 Buying options - local offers
The best thing to do is to scout around your local options and take note of prices. You could make your budget stretch much further with this. Make sure you have all the prices worked out per Kg (or whatever consistant mass you want), that way you can compare better than trying to remember the prices of various randomly sized bags (supermarkets still often try to confuse the shopper with prices).

Asian markets are a great source of cheap, bulk goods. You can often get large sacks of rice there that many supermarkets simply won't stock or at prices well below the supermarket.

Wholefood places (at least the independant ones) can be great sources of bulk and unusual items or high quality goods. Also the best place to get spices, I find. They can usually do special orders of all manner of obscure and highly specific items.

Supermarkets too often have special and good offers that you can take advantage of once you're into the swing of things. The key is to shop around. Remember you are bulk buying.

Tesco right now have an offer on at least three types of their own brand pasta - 66.7 pence for a Kg (actually £2 for 3Kg bags). That's about the cheapest I've seen it and the large bags they sell it in make it easy to load up on it. Even the cheapest ASDA penne pasta is still about 73p, and with the Tesco option you can add some variety with more than one kind and save money too. Perfect.

Tesco also recently had an offer on chickpeas (I like these). Great. I cleared the shelf of them. Some goes into storage, the rest I am cooking meals and making soup with. Keep an eye out for any offers. I suggest trying out all the various goods out there to see what you like. That way if it is on your list of things you'd like to store or eat you can take advantage of short term offers without fear of a mountain of food going to waste when it turns out you hate it.

I find the larger Tescos to be good for tinned and dry goods thanks to them including aisles of foriegn goods (often from various parts of the world from India to Poland to Jamaica). Many of these countries either have less than reliable refrigiration or simply have different traditions in food shopping and cooking. This means you can get things like clarified butter in a tin (ghee). Handy for cooking with and easy to store on a shelf (remember to rotate though as it will only last maybe a couple of years). Remember to compare within the supermarket too. Tesco (and others) often have several brands of dry lentils or beans and they aren't always located in the same aisle or shelf. I've seen one pack work out twice (or more) as expensive as another for the same product.

Lidl are often the best for rice. I like basmati rice the most. It's usually a lot more expensive than the cheapest US long grain, especially if you don't shop around carefully. Lidl is probably the best. You can sometimes buy Thai Jasmine/fragrant or basmati there for 99p per kilo. I grab cases of the stuff when it is that price. You could easily pay twice that somewhere else when there isn't an offer. You've either halved the costs or doubled your supplies this way. Even in ASDA with their large bags of own brand basmati rice the price is substantially higher (although ASDA can sometimes have their own bargains).

I'd love it if people would drop a mention in here whenever there's a suitable offer on for this topic (dry goods, things that will last or be useful in this area, etc.). It can be easy to miss out on them, especially if you are not shopping around.
>> No. 1343 Anonymous
8th September 2010
Wednesday 7:53 pm
1343 Batch processing your stuff
When packing things away it's usually best to do it in batches. Especially when using oxygen absorbers. Why? Because these are usually sold in packages containing between 20 to 100 each (some in even larger numbers). Remember that when you break the seal the absorbers are contained in they will immediately start to draw in O2 and need to be used before they go to waste. These absorbers are expensive (outrageously so, considering what they contain). You can keep them temporarily in a sealed container, but it's best you don't do this for long or often as they will slowly be used up sitting there and every time you dip into that jar or container they'll get worse and worse, so batches tend to be best.

I buy in a stack of bags and then a stack of O2 absorbers. I try to use up all the O2 absorbers in one go. It is also the most efficient and least time-consuming way to do it as once you are in the swing of it you'll get them done quicker things put away and tidied up only once.

As far as I have seen the costs for buying in the UK (or more specifically from UK vendors and specialists) are awful. There are many people trying to gouge us with inflated costs thanks to there being so few sellers here. As such it's often cheaper to buy it from America and have it delivered here (prices over there being comparitively very low). It really isn't any more difficult than ordering online anywhere else now. Not with us all used to PayPal and eBay. Buy in bulk as that way you are minimising the impact of the postage costs (often a dozen will cost almost the same to post as several dozen) and you'll come out good on the deal.

Try to buy quality bags (meaning a decent thickness to act as a barrier to O2, pests and prevent tearing of the bag) and from someone with a decent reputation (eBay or a google search can help) to minimise any risks.

It'll take about two weeks for standard US mail to deliver orders. No problem. You can start building up before you order them. You can then use the delivery time to continue to build up your supplies (it'll take a good while anyway unless you make a lot of special runs just for it). By the time they arrive or a while after you might be ready to do the first batch.

The bags can be ordered, used and stored in any amounts as they are non-perishable. Try to order the O2 absorbers in usable or manageable amounts though. If you're only using 1 per bucket then don't order a single pack of 100 unless you really are going to fill up all those buckets sometime soon. Getting them in packs of 10 or 20 (not many seem to do this, but you can get it) makes life easier. You can still order 100 of them and a stack of the bags in one go to keep the postage costs down, as mentioned before. Just make sure that those are being sent to you in those managable packs of 10 or 20.

There's also no problem with using many smaller ones instead of one large absorber to make up the needed volume. If you need to absorb 300cc you can use one 300cc absorber, three 100cc or six 50cc. It'll work just fine. So feel free to buy whatever is cheapest at the moment and is still managable for you. There's no harm in buying or using one that is overrated for the purpose, but the larger they are the more expensive they tend to be.
>> No. 1344 Anonymous
8th September 2010
Wednesday 8:13 pm
1344 Practice suggestion
If you're wanting an easy trial run then you can try a run by packing away salt. Salt is cheap (20-30p a kilo in supermarkets) and you don't need to use the O2 absorber. This way you can pack one bucket and not worry too much about messing up or hurrying like you might when you're doing a few with the absorbers to hand. You'll have all the time in the world to try a few times to get the hang of it (not that it is so hard).

Once you've got the hang of doing it the only difference is you'll be bunging in the absorber before fully sealing it.
>> No. 1345 Anonymous
9th September 2010
Thursday 12:55 am
1345 How long will it last? Storage life or shelf life
One thing you'll obviously want to know is how long any particular product will last in storage. This is a very difficult area to get a definite answer on. How something is packaged, nature of the product and how it is stored can make a big difference and most estimates seem to be quite conservative when compared to comparison to real life experiences. Take these things into consideration when judging how long it can be stored and when something needs to be rotated.

With that in mind you might want a look at some of these links:

Storage life of dried foods - https://www.usaemergencysupply.com/information_center/storage_life_of_foods.htm

General food storage shelf life - http://preview.tinyurl.com/2vlvlco

Storage life of particular foods - http://waltonfeed.com/blog/show/article_id/162

There are more good resources out there and I'll try and post them when I think of them.
>> No. 1346 Anonymous
9th September 2010
Thursday 4:30 am
1346 spacer
There are also some good practical survival threads here if you go far enough back.

Glad to see /eco/ is back on form after the unfortunate welding thread.
>> No. 1347 Anonymous
9th September 2010
Thursday 4:05 pm
1347 spacer
>>1346

Yeah, thought it was about time I contributed and got some conversations going. I think sometimes we can all be a bit shy or lazy when it comes to starting a thread (I know I kept putting this off).
>> No. 1348 Anonymous
9th September 2010
Thursday 6:06 pm
1348 Water storage - a start
Water, water everywhere and not a drop to drink?

Water storage isn't too difficult, thankfully. In this country we are also blessed with large amounts of running fresh water and rain. As such we can easily and cheaply fill up rain barrels and containers beforehand, much cheaper than buying bottled water. Don't rely on foraging as your only back up. You don't want to have to scrabble for such a basic need with every short term interruption in service any more than you want to break into long-term food supplies because you can't go to the shops that week. Especially so if you don't do this regularly.

The general recommendation for how much water you should store as a bare minimum is one gallon of water per person per day. So a couple of people would need 6 gallons minimum for three days. A gallon is roughly 4.5l. Containers here tend to be metric, so just assume 5l per person per day minimum to make life easier when planning or buying. Keep in mind that this water will be needed for cleaning, washing, cooking (boiling or soaking beans or rice) and drinking. You could burn through your short term supply just trying to flush the toilet, so don't think that this amount (5l per person per day) would be luxury or easy. Better to have more than you need than less.

eBay has ex-olive oil barrels with screw lids that are quite cheap and food safe and can be used for larger or mid scale storage. Just make sure that the barrel you use is safe to use for this purpose and hasn't held anything like paints or fuel or other non-food safe chemicals. Drink syrup, olive oil and other food product barrels could be used and can be found either for free or quite cheaply. These could hold about 200+l and either allow you to have a longer supply or allow for things like watering plants and flushing. You could sterilise the container, fill the thing up, screw on a well sealing lid and store it away if you have room. It'll be just as good as any other container of water this way. Keep in mind you'll need to clean it out and refresh the supply now and then (try to aim to rotate it every six months to a year).

Not everyone has room for one of these (or a larger above or underground tank). For smaller scale storage you can stash around the house you can buy food safe jerry cans (and has not been used for fuel or some such either) or plastic water containers (these are used for caravans, boats, camping). A "free" source of suitable storage containers with good lids are the common fizzy drink bottles. Wash and sterilise the 2l or larger bottles, fill them and and stack them up. Don't use those large plastic bottles that milk comes in as they have poor seals at the top, are soft and can easily leak and the plastics can also leach into the water or the bottles can fail. Those kinds are not robust and only meant for very short term use before being tossed. Keep it out of the light and somewhere cool if you can.

The water coming out of the tap is already chlorinated, so once you've sterilised the container and lid you can fill it up, put the cap on and put it away somewhere away from the light. You should rotate or refresh this supply every six months to keep it fresh - although after a year will still be okay it is best to keep it rotated so that it is always as fresh as possible and stops it getting too old if you do forget for a while to rotate. The plastic tends to leach into the water and make it taste bad over time.

If you have some older stale or flat (BUT STILL CLEAN) water or water that tastes a touch bleachy from previous sterilisation you can pour it between two containers for a while to get some air into it. That will stop it tasting flat and make it far more palatable to drink.

Water storage is the easiest and cheapest thing to do. Containers can be found for free in many places and the water costs next to nothing. Remember that you'll survive a shorter time without water than you would without food and water is often needed for cooking even camping style easy to prepare meals.
>> No. 1349 Anonymous
9th September 2010
Thursday 7:10 pm
1349 Seven Major Mistakes in Food Storage
A link to a great article that should give food for thought to anyone either in the process of storing or considering it:

https://www.usaemergencysupply.com/information_center/seven_major_mistakes_in_food_storage.htm

Avoid other people's mistakes.
>> No. 1350 Anonymous
11th September 2010
Saturday 11:54 am
1350 spacer
>>1349
Woah. That bit about food/appetite fatigue was an eye opener. I had to cut back on food variety recently and noticed that more and more, I'd just put off eating all together until I became light headed, knowing I should be eating, having food in the house and just absolutely no urge to eat any of it. I'm not starving by any stretch of the imagination, but eating's become a purely mechanical maintenance task with zero joy attached… on par with flossing, really.
>> No. 1351 Anonymous
11th September 2010
Saturday 2:05 pm
1351 spacer
>>1350

It's something that I sort of half knew about before reading about it (having had similar feelings to you and seeing it in others) and afterwards I realised what was really going on. It's amazing just how much of an impact it can have, isn't it?

This is why I went for variety with everything and packed away spices (pretty easy and cheap if you buy from smaller whole food local shops instead of inflated supermarket prices). Rather than 10 of one thing I will have 5 of two slightly different things, and so on. This is also why it is a good idea to try out the stored food for a while (say, a week or so). That way you'll quickly learn how to use it and what the problems with it are. Keep doing it maybe once a month too, to keep you learning and trying new ideas and to rotate the food some.

I can imagine people growing sick or malnourished just because of this fatigue and boredom effect. At the very least they might end up eating only when hunger pangs force them - leaving you weak even in a home full of food that you presumed would keep you strong. In a way it's a good example of how important it can be to know how to cook and be inventive in the kitchen.
>> No. 1352 Anonymous
11th September 2010
Saturday 7:23 pm
1352 spacer
I hear ASDA are selling "French Kilner" style jars. 1l size for £1. Have a look around. I'll be seeing what they are like and checking Tesco and other places too to see if they have similar offers.

They might be discounted soon too, if they don't sell well.
>> No. 1353 Anonymous
12th September 2010
Sunday 2:23 am
1353 spacer
>>1350

Reminds me of how people say you have to force yourself to keep drinking in hot countries, rather than rely on just thirst as we do here.
>> No. 1354 Anonymous
13th September 2010
Monday 11:49 am
1354 Water storage 101
This guy is superb. Here is his series on water storage. Well worth listening to as he knows his stuff. Everything from filtration and cleaning to containers and planning all related to water.

https://www.youtube.com/v/pw8J8_8V7jM
https://www.youtube.com/v/FB1vrgYmp40
https://www.youtube.com/v/dxIHMSeFQE0
https://www.youtube.com/v/9H47XNKpnro
>> No. 1355 Anonymous
14th September 2010
Tuesday 12:25 am
1355 spacer
Remember if there's something you want in particular, feel free to ask. Otherwise I will keep plodding on with whatever comes to mind.
>> No. 1356 Anonymous
14th September 2010
Tuesday 7:21 pm
1356 spacer
Tesco still have a nice offer on for their pastas and egg noodles, in case anyone is wanting to buy some large amounts. It can make a big saving with bulk if you take advantage of these.
>> No. 1359 Anonymous
14th September 2010
Tuesday 11:33 pm
1359 spacer
Mind if I convert this threat into an (updated) PDF?
>> No. 1360 Anonymous
15th September 2010
Wednesday 3:05 am
1360 spacer
>>1359

For one would welcome such an action.
>> No. 1361 Anonymous
15th September 2010
Wednesday 6:42 pm
1361 spacer
>>1359

Is it for the folks here to read it easier? Go ahead and make sure it's linked to here. This stuff is on /eco/ because I like /eco/ and the people here (as opposed to some scummy money making scam site filled with adverts, affiliate links, phoney reviews, over priced junk and demands for "donations" that I've come across) and want to help them. Just make sure there are mentions of/links to britfa.gs in the PDF so this site gets a deserved mention if the PDFs somehow end up in the hands of anyone else who doesn't know about /eco/ and britfa.gs (one less thing for a certain chan to claim they spawned) at some point. Bring them into the fold and give the place a boost. I'll be adding more to it over time though (and maybe others too), so someone will have to keep the PDF updated (with some sort of version number in the name, I suppose?) to avoid confusion. I think that's what you meant anyway, seeing as you said "updated". Don't bother putting in my mentions of short term shopping offers though as by the time someone reads the PDF they'll be over and prices could be anywhere and they'll be led astray or frustrated. Those are just extras for whomever is reading at the time and can pop in within a week or so.

I was going to gather it up myself and do some editing at some point anyway. I've got tons of material and thoughts to sort through yet.
>> No. 1362 Anonymous
15th September 2010
Wednesday 8:06 pm
1362 spacer
>>1361

I can't speak for him, but I'm sure are purple could fix it for you to have the PDF kept on this site in perpetuity, if it's useful. Even webmasters need to prepare for The End.
>> No. 1363 Anonymous
15th September 2010
Wednesday 10:29 pm
1363 spacer
>>1362

That would be great if he was okay with that. That way everyone could get to it easily, we can keep it updated and know that the one hosted here was the latest.

Someone tickle Purple behind the ears until he says yes.
>> No. 1365 Anonymous
18th September 2010
Saturday 1:17 am
1365 spacer
>>1363
Sorry for the long absence. All I was thinking was pasting the above paragraphs into a TeX document and then posting them here somehow for people's viewing and printing convenience. It'll get delayed a bit for job related reasons, but all going well come Sunday evening I'll have it up. If and where it ends up, I do not care about. Links and such will only appear here, if someone wants the LaTeX source once I get around to it they will be welcome to it. For now: the homebrew calls :)
>> No. 1367 Anonymous
20th September 2010
Monday 2:20 pm
1367 spacer

File
removed
>>1365
First draft. It's mostly unchanged except for reshuffling the order of the chapters a bit. Source and PDF both included in the attached rar-image, feel free to make suggestions if you think something needs changing.
>> No. 1370 Anonymous
20th September 2010
Monday 3:41 pm
1370 spacer
>>1365

No worries. It is a relaxed pace here anyway, so everyday/real life can happily take priority without disrupting anything.

>>1367

Been reading through it and I like the layout. Good job on the first run.

One mistake I noticed was the part about mylar bags. The grades of them are "mil", not "mi", as it is written in the PDF (wanted that to be clear because to people not familiar with this shorthand for thousands of an inch it's very confusing) and the pound signs seemed to have vanished (mostly not a problem as it is usally obvious when it is pence or pounds).

In other news the Tesco pasta offer is finally over, so the price has jumped back up by 50% or more. A pity, but I did well out of it. Their cheapest value packs of penne and fusilli are almost as cheap. There's bound to be other offers at some point. You can check up on it either with the occasional visit or by looking at a decent supermarket comparison site that notes and displays offers for you. I think they are selling ghee and noodles on offer right now.
>> No. 1371 Anonymous
20th September 2010
Monday 4:42 pm
1371 spacer

eco-wisdom.jpg
137113711371
>>1370
> The grades of them are "mil", not "mi",
> the pound signs seemed to have vanished
Fixed, both silly mistakes on my part. Thinking about it, though, the temporary special offers should probably be removed; /eco/ or /nom/ would make much better places for such constantly changing information. I might prune them a bit and/or rewrite them slightly to make them serve as examples of what to look out for rather than an up-to-the-minute shopping guide.

Might also be worth digging through older threads to see what can be dug up there for inclusion :). I won't have time for anything substantial tonight, though.

(I deleted the old version, just to avoid confusion)
>> No. 1372 Anonymous
20th September 2010
Monday 7:01 pm
1372 spacer
>>1371

The only temporary offer mentioned in the text as it is now is one which serves as an example of why special offers are a bulk buyer's friend. It doesn't need any other offers added, for previously mentioned reasons.
>> No. 1405 Anonymous
5th October 2010
Tuesday 3:14 pm
1405 spacer
I've not given up on this. I'm currently involved in some food-related experiments for this topic and sourcing some often hard-to-find storage items.

In related news they started working on the mains water in this area, which means for a week there will be no water or tainted unclean water that is not safe. They gave short noice for this and very little information on safety - not even information on cleaning/sterilisation or boiling the water properly or how much needs to be stored, etc. This was a handy practice run for me to test my preparations and ideas and also help inform the neighbours. It shows that these things don't need to be for anything too extreme. They can come in useful for even mundane situations. Thanks to a little money and time spent beforehand, my neighbours and I will have enough water and knowledge not to suffer or be inconvenienced too much (especially with the elderly or ill neighbours) and not suffer any risk. I can have the joy of flushing my toilet when others will be dry. Also of note is that the works are dragging on and are behind schedule - which means the water will likely have interruptions for even longer, something which if you took their word for it early on and only prepared for that then you would find yourself inconvenienced all the more.

Both the knowledge and the physical can come in handy over the years. The knowledge is mostly free, so there's no reason not to gain some - and the rest doesn't have to be expensive.
>> No. 1587 Anonymous
9th February 2011
Wednesday 1:06 am
1587 spacer
Do you have any ideas on de-husking wheat and hand milling? I found a rotary mill but that was £200 - that I don't have.
What are the options for processing grains? I have single handled failed to google anything else
>> No. 1588 Anonymous
9th February 2011
Wednesday 9:55 am
1588 spacer
>>1587

Are you simply looking for a grain mill? What was the one you were looking at but couldn't afford?

What is your budget? What kind of size and portabilty do you want? Do you want to be able to grind it to meal or to fine flour? Will you only be grinding wheat or will you be grinding other grains, nuts and beans?

There are some that can be worked by hand and possibly modified to work with motors or bicycle, etc. too.
>> No. 1594 Anonymous
10th February 2011
Thursday 2:57 am
1594 spacer
>>1588
http://www.breadexperience.com/grain-mill.html
Wonder Junior (Basic/Deluxe) was what I was thinking. Basically this or more low tech.
Could it be done with a pestle and mortar?
Was thinking oats and possibly past their best dried beans
>> No. 1595 Anonymous
10th February 2011
Thursday 9:08 am
1595 spacer
>>1594

Pestle and mortar would be a bad choice. Just try and get 250g of fine flour out of that. A lot of effort, messy, difficult. You would be exhuasted and frustrated. Not something you want to rely on. You can get away with crushing grain to chunks with just bashing or crushing even with a rollerpin if you're only brewing small amounts, but for grinding flour for much use you'll want a mill of some sort.

It's a nice mill you've highlighted. Stones work well for grinding and can last a long time. With oily items you want to have burrs as they can be cleaned up easily.

A corona mill is the cheap one you'll see around a lot. Cast iron normally and they clamp onto tables. Works, but can need two or three passes for finer results. Should last well thanks to the almost all metal construction (wooden handle usually). and parts are not hard to get. Look very similar to hand mincers. Crank operated. If you are practical and able you can modify to work with some motors or belt. There are a few modification you can do to them and they are quite common, so you'll come across others with them. The cheapest real option. Some of these can last forever, so long as the castings are good and don't give out on you. Aside from fleaBay you can probably find them second hand cheap in charity shops if you ask or car boot sales as they've been made for a long time.

The "Back to Basics Grain Mill" is a sort of middle of the road mill. It's small, light and portable. It's a bit more expensive than the cheapest option and will give better results for less effort. Nowhere near as expensive as the top end mills though. It's not as good as the high end and it isn't nearly built so well (obvious when you see the very small size of it). It is easy to take apart, move and and swap spares in (if you have them). There are some aspects of the design I like - simplicity, modern, small, light, easy to use. It takes advantage of modern materials for the design. For one person's flour supply and not a lot of use it would do well enough. It is for small scale processing. It would do as a portable or cheap back up option even for those with a larger model. It could also do nicely for someone wanting it purely "just in case" and very occasional use as the relatively tiny size and easy packing and set up of it means you won't mind the space and time it takes. There are some eBay sellers of this and UK based internet shops that sell it too. Not uncommon on speciality sites, wholefood or survival ones, etc.

These are the ones I see sold in the UK. I know there are many others out there, but they tend to have to be imported by the buyer and this is not something I like to do (import duty, warranties, spares, etc.). No doubt there are people with experience and knowledge on other models.

I've not tried the multi purpose or animal feed mills.

If you need any more information, let me know.
>> No. 1596 Anonymous
10th February 2011
Thursday 9:12 am
1596 spacer
Oh, there is also a "Sprint" grain mill sold in the UK, but I have never seen one in use, so I can't pass judgement. It is priced a bit above the Back To Basics, is larger, but still well below the top end. I'd like to see it in use as it could be a well priced option for those looking for a decent sized mill without spending a lot - if it can perform.
>> No. 1597 Anonymous
10th February 2011
Thursday 9:34 am
1597 spacer
The Back To Basics uses stainless steel burrs for grinding, so should last a while if you're not putting rocks and coins through it. Should have said earlier. Easy to take the burr out and clean it it too.
>> No. 1598 Anonymous
10th February 2011
Thursday 10:25 am
1598 spacer
If anyone says to you they can just make flour with rocks or hammers or some other homebrew idea that involves bashing away at loose grain then you can be certain they haven't tried living off of it. Make them display this easy method to you (or try it yourself if they turn yellow under scrutiny but you are still unsure) before believing them. Should be entertaining for you. I've never seen it work well yet or anyone who does it regularly for baking (and no doubt other uses) think it was easy and the best way.

Millstones were created long ago for a good reason. Least effort for best results. Even then it will work your arms if it is hand powered.

Mortar and pestles are handy things to have, but they are for grinding up small amounts of material at a time and not for making grain into flour. If I wanted a pound of flour I want to be able to grind it and cook with it in one day and not spend a whole day labouring away at it.

Old dry beans can get really hard with time too. Harder than newer dried beans. Like rocks. I'd hate to have to process them by bashing at it. I might if I was desperate enough, but only if all other options were not available.
>> No. 1600 Anonymous
12th February 2011
Saturday 4:16 pm
1600 spacer
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/corn-prices-soar-chinese-imports-increase-ninefold-compared-official-projections

Expected imports 1m tonnes. Actual 9m tonnes. Oh dear. If you're planning on stocking up with grain, get it now before the prices rocket and speculators drive it higher. Afterwards you'd be in the ideal position to benefit from your mill.
>> No. 1624 Anonymous
23rd February 2011
Wednesday 8:34 pm
1624 spacer

MyEco.jpg
162416241624
>>1595
Duly updated.
>> No. 1723 Anonymous
7th May 2011
Saturday 11:02 am
1723 spacer
Another interesting list to look over:

http://beforeitsnews.com/story/533/738/11_Emergency_Food_Items_That_Can_Last_a_Lifetime.html

Note the comment going on about organic this and brown that. When you are starving you don't look for organic fair trade farmers market food. You find something that can't climb out of a bucket and you can hold down and you eat it. Anything more is a bonus. Don't lose sight of your budget and such. If money was no object you can start to worry about the little things. Also note that sometimes the refined types have benefits. White rice lasts much longer than brown rice unless you can get them tinned by professional storage suppliers (expensive). As long as you are sensible and don't go to either extreme - the guy mentioned who bought powdered milkshake stuff or the guy worrying about organic stuff before he has his cupboards full you'll be okay.

Morale, nutrition, calorific content, storage life and budget. Keep these in mind when buying food. Can you live without chocolate? Sure. It's nice to have some treats though. Treats also don't need to be particularly nutritious if you're using them as an addition to add variety and improve mood (also adding calories).

Also: Why is it that this board lags so badly compared to any others? When I scroll up and down it is very noticable. Never seen it elsewhere. Just here.
>> No. 1724 Anonymous
7th May 2011
Saturday 12:15 pm
1724 spacer
>>1723
You can fix the lag with AdBlock. Just block the background pictures.
>> No. 1725 Anonymous
7th May 2011
Saturday 1:13 pm
1725 spacer
>>1724

Thanks. Didn't realise it could be that causing such a problem.
>> No. 1844 Anonymous
30th July 2011
Saturday 9:09 pm
1844 spacer
I've been testing out some tinned stuff. I'll make an update later. Sometimes getting these things can be stupidly difficult if you don't have a shop or market handy nearby, but I've at least found some people to deal with for the EU or UK market.
>> No. 1845 Anonymous
31st July 2011
Sunday 1:10 am
1845 Dairy food - Cheese and butter
Milk isn't too difficult to get. You can buy powdered milk in carboard or metal tins, you can get UHT long lasting milk, freeze some of it or buy tins of condensed/evaporated milk too. Worth getting some of these things to put buy. Assuming you've used up your normal milk I'd go with using up stuff in this order:

Frozen tubs of milk>UHT milk>tins of evaporated/condensed>powdered milk

You can get powered milk as semi skimmed or full cream milk. I'd suggest getting it in metal tins. Usually they come with a resealable container (plastic lids to pop on after you've opened the tin or a push fit lid like Bird's custard tins).

Lidls do a brand of semi in a metal tin. It'll do the job and barring physical abuse it will keep it good for a while. If you want creamier stuff (either for taste or recipies) then keep an eye out for Nestle Nido tins. They sell it in a few sizes of tins, so you can get one to suit your own space or budget. You can get them in UK supermarkets fairly easily, so internet retailers, odd markets or obscure retailers don't need to be sought. Sometimes the Nido tins are in with the coffee and sometimes in the ethnic aisles.

Tinned cheese is very difficult to get in the UK and normal (not clarified ghee type) butter can be difficult too. On foot or by car they are easiest to get at ethnic markets if you can get to the right ones, but there's no guarrantees there if you do find some markets. Not many places stock it otherwise. Buying online is far more difficult than it should be. Many places will not import it or accept posting it over here (and the few who will charge fees for it that double the price of it at least and make it far too expensive).

Part of the problem seems to be that some of the canners do it in batches, so stocks build up and run out instead of the usual steady stream we are used to. There's also been movement of some of the factories from the EU and America to Asia and the Middle East, making harder to get for some. Some of the best producers are on the other side of the world and sell to other markets instead of here.

I've found two online sources that can actually deliver the goods for it to UK addresses:

http://www.malikstores.co.uk/products.php?category_id=251

They sell two types of cheese. Both very similar but one slightly stronger and saltier than the other. It's a processed sort of cheese (think like those Kraft slices but as a giant slab of it). Both brands taste rather mild. A bit too mild and salty for my usual tastes, but it'd be okay in a pinch. Try both though because that way you can decide for yourself and it's cheap enough (buy the small size and not the giant 1Kg tin or you will never see the end of it). Once you find a brand you like you can stock that. It can be used to cook with, so long as you read up on recpies and how to handle it beforehand as it won't behave like the usual chedder you might be used to. Look for processed/Kraft cheese recipies online for help.

The two smaller sizes come in tins that are similar to Fray Bentos pie tins. The Tastee cheese comes with a plastic lid that allows you to reseal after opening the tin up, which makes life easier. It keeps reasonably well after opening and I didn't have a problem with spoiling or drying out. Seems to have a good amount of moisture. It'll dry out if you leave it for long enough on the chopping board but wrapped in the fridge it'll be just as lasting as any other cheese.

They'll deliver in the UK and will send one tin or many. Rather well packaged but with tins in the post you have to accept that now and then you'll get a small dent in a batch. The Fray Bentos style tins have the advantage of being rather tough though.

http://shop.conserva.de/epages/es116266.sf/?Locale=en_GB&ViewObjectID=16401864

This one is quite nice. They sell quite a range of items but the cheese (and butter) are the things that are best from the point of view of the difficulty otherwise getting it online. They do sell a lot of luxury storage items if you're feeling flush.

There are occasionally other brands that appear in this shop or elsewhere, but they are like gold dust at times and unless you are quick they'll vanish because people are waiting for them.

They post from Germany. Well packaged and a good delivery time. If you buy a few items at the same time the postage isn't much compared to the food bill (the problem with buying from America). You also don't need to worry about paying import costs with their stock as it's all within the EU.

They currently stock one that's not too shabby. They have a minimum order implemented recently for some items. Used to be you could buy one tin to try it out, but I assume the costs have gone up and it's not really economical for them to send out one tin here and there any more.

Similar to Malik's in taste and texture. I think I preferred this one though. Wasn't too salty and a little creamier. Come in tins like double sized tuna ones, so rather normal by comparison. I happened to have some plastic lids that went over the top just nicely to seal it back up, but otherwise you will probably have to fiddle the cheese out the tin to wrap it in cling film once it is open as they didn't supply lids. Try to find something to act as a lid if you can.

Overall I'd say the cheeses were okay, as long as you expect a drop in quality in return for the longevity and robustness of it. If you are already a happy muncher of Kraft cheese blocks or slices then you're not going to mind much at all. As for useable time I know tins of cheese have been tested after storage for many years after the sell by date and were found to be just as good and perfectly safe. You could likely keep them for half a dozen years, maybe a decade or more without a problem if probably stored.

Conserva also sell ordinary lightly salted butter in a tin which is also quite difficult to get otherwise. It's French and quite nice. There's less to go wrong with butter compared to cheese, thankfully. You can reseal them with plastic lids (should come with them when you buy it, so no need to hunt for one). I'd happily recommend it as a stand by. Butter powder is crappy by comparison.

The butter will last well. So long as you don't let it melt into a mess in the sun after you've opened or used it not much can go wrong with it, much as with your normal butter.

Great pick me up, flavour enhancer, energy source and baking ingredient that is otherwise difficult to get and keep without modern fridges and freezers. A couple of boxes of this and you can be fine for a good while to come. Lots of cooking and food just isn't the same without some fat or butter for flavour. Imagine trying to live through the SHTF situation and you've got DRY TOAST! It doesn't bear thinking about. I wouldn't want to do without dairy products as I do enjoy them and they add variety to the diet.

I've tried both these retailers and all the products before suggesting them here to make sure I'm not directing anyone here into a scam or crappy product.

I do like tins when possible for the fact it stores so well and is obviously very resistant to pests and contamination.

Those links again:

http://www.malikstores.co.uk/products.php?category_id=251

http://shop.conserva.de/epages/es116266.sf/?Locale=en_GB&ViewObjectID=16401864
>> No. 1846 Anonymous
3rd August 2011
Wednesday 2:53 am
1846 spacer
>>1845

The comments on that alerted me to a veritable GECK for sixty quid:

http://www.seedsnow.com/products/mega-survival-kit
>> No. 1847 Anonymous
3rd August 2011
Wednesday 3:40 am
1847 spacer
>>1846

Looks like a great kit, but importing it would be a bitch, I'd imagine.
>> No. 1848 Anonymous
3rd August 2011
Wednesday 3:44 am
1848 spacer
>>1846

Where did you see the comments about it? Please link to the comments.
>> No. 1849 Anonymous
3rd August 2011
Wednesday 3:54 am
1849 spacer
>>1848

http://beforeitsnews.com/story/533/738/11_Emergency_Food_Items_That_Can_Last_a_Lifetime.html
>> No. 1866 Anonymous
7th September 2011
Wednesday 11:10 pm
1866 spacer
European Freeze Dry have updated their site. It's gone over to Mountain House branding heavily. On the upside the tins are shipped from the UK. I think they are also all being made in the UK for our market, judging from the latest tins I've seen. Faster shipping times, cheaper prices and less risk to the goods in transit. Win-win for the UK buyers.

They still do some of their own plain pouches though for fruit, chicken and a smaller tin for prawns if you want to try them first instead of buying the large Mountain House ones.

The berry fruit is very good. Better tasting and quality than most dried fruit in cereal mixes. Very strong flavour. When dry it's like the strongest jam or drinking fruit drink concentrate neat. You tend to expect these things to be bland, but these are far from it. Almost too strong in the dry state for nibbling on its own although you could enjoy them that way. Adding them to cereal or ice cream while dry works great. You can also reconstitute them and use as normal.

I think the apples might be more suited to nibbling on its own. Strawberries weren't too strong either. The rasberries were powerful, almost eye-watering. Delicious.

Free shipping for orders over £24 in the UK. Not a big order as many of the tins are well over that amount.
>> No. 1868 Anonymous
9th September 2011
Friday 10:19 pm
1868 spacer
>>1866

Checked the dates on the tins and they are being honest with the shipping and production times. I've heard some people complain about getting very old stock pouches and tins that have already had years off their shelf life from some supplies. Quite likely this could be because they are manufacturing them themselves instead of having to buy them in through the chan and store them. A big plus if you want the maximum shelf life you can get.
>> No. 1878 Anonymous
13th September 2011
Tuesday 4:56 am
1878 spacer
A tip for rehydrating freeze dried food. You can add water as normal or you can add flavouring into the water you use. A stock cube mixed into it can almost instantly marinade the meat. Similarly you can try other flavourings, spices, etc. for savoury or sweet items.

Return ] Entire Thread ] Last 50 posts ]
whiteline

Delete Post []
Password