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>> No. 22775 Anonymous
1st April 2019
Monday 5:21 pm
22775 Pronouns in games
https://www.oneangrygamer.net/2019/03/vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-2-gets-woke-with-pronouns-modern-day-politics-masculine-subversion/80691/

I don't mind this at all but I wish it would have some actual function rather than being there for the sake of it.
If you had cosmetic affects for instance, If I could choose my pronoun to be xer and I play some 'girl' with masculine features and that voice trans have then yea think this would be interesting.

What think?

(A good day to you Sir!)
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>> No. 22776 Anonymous
1st April 2019
Monday 5:29 pm
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We exist because the jellyfish wills it so.
>> No. 22777 Anonymous
1st April 2019
Monday 5:44 pm
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I think if you're not tired of this tedious debate by now you're fucking mental.
>> No. 22778 Anonymous
1st April 2019
Monday 5:45 pm
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>>22775
I think someone's getting angry over nothing, and you should probably ignore them.
>> No. 22779 Anonymous
1st April 2019
Monday 6:06 pm
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>One Angry Gamer
I've never even heard of the guy and I'm already sure he's a cunt.

Yeah, I read his piece, he's a cunt. Why is he complaining? That's the big question I have that I can't find an answer to. This is a like someone going to a Nine Inch Nails concert and whinging that Trent Reznor isn't Fats Domino. I don't like the Total Warhammer games, but that doesn't mean I have to throw a hissy fit, they just aren't my cup of tea. If you don't want to engage with a piece of art or entertainment, then don't do it. Did he also write an article about the literally non-existent chracter development in Assetto Corsa as well?

I could sit here all day thinking of similes to try to convey my confusion, but ultimately his complaints are so chock-full of the cookie-cutter newspeak lads of his political bent are prone to, I don't think I'd get a sensible answer out of anyone who thinks like him anyway.

They're vampires for goodness sake, they're the campest villains this side of Kevin Spacey, or hasn't he seen a vampire film since Nosferatu?
>> No. 22780 Anonymous
1st April 2019
Monday 6:26 pm
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>>22779

+1 Its like hes getting angry cause he thinks hes supposed to.
>> No. 22781 Anonymous
1st April 2019
Monday 6:30 pm
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One Angry Gamer is a 4chan /pol/tard I think. His stuff is just tiresome "anti-SJW" shit, I think he got mad at the upcoming Mortal Kombat game for the designs of female characters not showing as much skin as in previous games, calling it an attack on "boner culture". Even the shithole that is 4chan /v/ seems to be sick of his shit.
>> No. 22782 Anonymous
1st April 2019
Monday 7:33 pm
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Why do people put so much effort into caring about this stuff, but they don't give a shit about actual problems? This baffles me.
>> No. 22783 Anonymous
1st April 2019
Monday 7:46 pm
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I think in a game centred around a fully customised player character it makes perfect sense. I would only ever use 'him' or 'her' but extra options aren't hurting me or anyone else (except Graham Linehan).

It might stick out a bit in a fantasy RPG or something, with medieval guards calling you by a 2019 pronoun, but again, it's not going to affect my beefy toxic male character so why the fuck should I care? Games should be as accessible and customisable as possible.

I can't see it catching on beyond Bloodlines 2, though - there's loads of AAA titles that don't even bother to have settings that make the game playable for colour blind people, let alone accounting for all possible gender identities .
>> No. 22786 Anonymous
5th April 2019
Friday 11:39 pm
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>>22783
>I would only ever use 'him' or 'her' but extra options aren't hurting me or anyone else (except Graham Linehan).
I feel compelled to mention 2064: Read Only Memories. It's a text adventure homage to Snatcher, so it's 90's cyberpunk, you know the drill. That said, it's about 70% Snatcher and 30% ultra-progressive gender politics. It allows you to specify any of the usual pronouns, and it even offers a custom pronoun system which can be set to whatever you want. Pretty much every character is trans or gay or whatnot.

Weird game. When it wasn't rubbing my face in the gender politics stuff it was actually pretty entertaining.
>> No. 22787 Anonymous
6th April 2019
Saturday 12:22 am
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>>22786
>rubbing my face in the gender politics stuff
To reiterate, this consisted of:
-letting you choose your pronoun, and
-having LGBTIQ+ characters
Yes?
>> No. 22788 Anonymous
6th April 2019
Saturday 1:13 am
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>>22787
In fairness to the other lad, it's very bay-area progressive. (I mean, it's literally set in neo San Francisco) It's drawn from that specific kind of American variety of LGBTIQ+ circles. It didn't bother me much when I played, but it's definitely a bit foreign even though I'm around some similar British circles. I'm not sure how to pin it down better than that. It's like that American kind of very individualist, cheerful confidence and outgoingness I guess. A game with the same % queer characters and pronoun-choices made by a British developer would probably lack the same in-your-face feeling, even though it's hypothetically equally in your face.
>> No. 22789 Anonymous
6th April 2019
Saturday 2:32 am
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>>22787
I'd like to reiterate: I enjoyed the game, and completed it. I did find it somewhat over the top at times, as >>22788 explains. I take a "live and let live" approach when it comes to other people's relationships, gender and so on. I try not to be a dick about it.
>> No. 22790 Anonymous
6th April 2019
Saturday 1:42 pm
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I don't like the look of this. VtM worked in a very specific time with a very specific atmosphere and I'm no longer an awkward teenager.
>> No. 22791 Anonymous
8th April 2019
Monday 5:54 pm
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>>22789
>>22788
>>22787
>>22786

As a straightlad, I try my best not to be closed-minded about all that sort of thing, but it's hard not to feel like there's a tipping point where you distinctly feel like something is not really for you, you know? It's sort of like, if you go to an LGBT friendly bar, you won't be unwelcome, but you do sort of feel like a bit of a tourist.

There's this place near me that's so queer it feels like the underground LGBT resistance HQ, and my girlfriend likes to hang out there, because she identifies as bi and poly and all that. But I always get the distinct feeling it's a bit disingenuous to make it our regular when we're clearly in a monogamous straight relationship, she hasn't slept with a bird for about five years, and I might as well be wearing a visitor's badge that reads MALE ALLY.

I don't see a problem with it personally but I don't think it's unreasonable that it might not be to everybody's taste, and I don't think that necessarily means someone is a big nasty homophobe, honestly.
>> No. 22795 Anonymous
8th April 2019
Monday 7:36 pm
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>>22791
>it's hard not to feel like there's a tipping point where you distinctly feel like something is not really for you, you know? It's sort of like, if you go to an LGBT friendly bar, you won't be unwelcome, but you do sort of feel like a bit of a tourist.

Have you considered that this is what "normal" mainstream society feels like to a lot of LGBT/POC/pick your minority people? That the culture in general is not for them. And maybe small gestures like having playable characters in a computer game or greater representation in media in general etc might help people to feel less isolated and more included in society?

Not having a go like.
>> No. 22796 Anonymous
8th April 2019
Monday 8:03 pm
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>>22791
That's fair! And, >>22795 is also right!

Yes, not everything is for you, and that's OK. Especially because as a straight man, virtually everything is made for you. I don't think anyone is suggesting that you have to like RuPaul's Drag Race (I certainly don't) in order to be an ally, but at the same time you shouldn't moan about having LGBT culture 'rubbed in your face' simply because it exists (as a lad did above).
>> No. 22797 Anonymous
8th April 2019
Monday 8:53 pm
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>>22796

>but at the same time you shouldn't moan about having LGBT culture 'rubbed in your face' simply because it exists (as a lad did above).

Whilst that is true, sometimes it purposefully is. I usually consider that something to do with the insecurity of the person who insists on the rubbing in their own identity more than anything whenever I've seen it. Kind of like how American Atheists seem to revel in an adversarial to Christian position.Among groups like the fet scene there is definitely regularly the obnoxious righteousness that goes with that kind of psychological insecurity, where the stance of indifferance isn't good enough for people.
>> No. 22798 Anonymous
8th April 2019
Monday 9:53 pm
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>>22796

Indeed, but I think in general it's easy to read things as an attack on LGBT stuff when in reality it is just somebody saying that's not really their thing. Which, as we've agreed on, is fine. The phrase he used was "rubbed in his face" but I didn't take that as a moan at LGBT people, just a general way of expressing it was like having a bit too much mayonnaise on his chips for his liking.

>>22795

Of course, but not everything has to be for everyone. It's just as valid for a straight bloke to go "no thanks, it's a bit gay for me" as it is for a gay lass to go "nah, it's not gay enough for me". Generally though I think if people are placing so much weight in their sexuality and how it defines them as a person, I feel they would be able to make bigger gains by putting their self-esteem in healthier things, than by the token gesture of having a game call them xe.

You don't hear me complaining that furries are under-represented. We still have to make the yiff mods ourselves damnit.
>> No. 22799 Anonymous
8th April 2019
Monday 11:02 pm
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>>22791
I've avoided getting involved with this why can't we just talk about our RP adventures and Ventrue being best? and I don't know your LGBT resistance HQ but I used to frequent a gay-bar every month or so because I had gay friends. It was awkward at first but eventually I made friends with the other regulars and we got drunk and had a laugh as friends do.

This sounds more like the place you're going to is just full of dickheads who base their identity on being the other or you've not gotten to know anyone and therefore unconsciously see them as the other. I'd hazard the latter but there's always one person writing in the guardian. I mean, you're presumably a lovely couple so how is that different to any other bar? If you went with your boyfriend what would be different?

That said it's neither here nor there. We're talking about a game whose plot centres on an underground society of vampires and blood-magic. Although the franchise has a complicated relationship with sex it is generally assumed that vampires lack a sexual impulse and gender norms are irrelevant when you're a blood-thirsty predator. Pronoun choices are by extension irrelevant but there's absolutely no reason to tout it in this day and age unless they're going to make it a core part of the plot (which would ruin it) or otherwise use it to try and cover a bad game (the typical option).
>> No. 22800 Anonymous
9th April 2019
Tuesday 12:12 am
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>>22799

That's mostly why it feels disingenuous, which was my point. Neither of us are the type to talk to strangers, so why are we there exactly when we could be anti-social in any pub we like?

It's because she doesn't want to feel like she's sold out by taking the dick.
>> No. 22801 Anonymous
9th April 2019
Tuesday 12:19 am
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>>22799

>We're talking about a game whose plot centres on an underground society of vampires and blood-magic. Although the franchise has a complicated relationship with sex it is generally assumed that vampires lack a sexual impulse and gender norms are irrelevant when you're a blood-thirsty predator. Pronoun choices are by extension irrelevant but there's absolutely no reason to tout it in this day and age unless they're going to make it a core part of the plot (which would ruin it) or otherwise use it to try and cover a bad game (the typical option).

From what I remember of Masquerade, a young vampire has been dead for 25-50 years and usually several hundred, some of them living for thousands, slow to adapt to society as they become more reclusive, and becoming consumed by their bestial nature they hardly seem the sort to be on the cutting edge of progressive. They also referred to the ruler of the city as 'the prince' regardless of sex because such concepts were irrelevant to them.

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